this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2026
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[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 47 points 1 week ago (10 children)

Something always bothers me about these kinds of infiltrations. Wild Shape is a relatively low level spell. And while most NPC's are essentially level 0 with no magic, it should at least be common knowledge in their world that the spell exists and MANY people have access to it.

So why would the guards not be suspicious of an animal? For that matter, why do the guards not have someone constantly using detect magic? Wild Shape is far from the only magic that can be used for infiltration, seems like common sense to constantly scan for magic around an area you are trying to keep secure. I just feel like too often, DMs treat their NPCs, especially guards, as if they have zero knowledge of magic or the world they live in.

[–] Vespair@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I think there is some serious PC-skewing in terms of world norms. In most D&D campaigns I've seen, druids are fairly rare and very insular where they do exist, so the average person has only maybe even ever heard of a druid, much less chance having encountered one. I'm sure your mileage may vary by campaign and maybe my experience is the outlier, but that's how I've seen it

[–] Derpykat5@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

What do you think they have Igor for?

[–] Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Depends entirely on the situation, really. Like a large castle is going to be relatively incapable of keeping out various wildlife on a massive scale, so a bird or rat running around isn't really an issue off hand. Maybe keep an eye on it to note any sus behavior, but otherwise animals exist. But if they're in sensitive areas, then it becomes considerably more alarming. Sure, it could just be a rat, but it also could be a fuckin' druid in which case killing the bird/rat/bat/whatever on sight might be a reasonable response. This also has the added benefit of allowing for a guard who might be a fan of animals and not want to hurt them, which gives the player an alternate path/chance to take things with.

I miss DMing

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I feel like, related to this meme, cats in particular would be a lot more common, and trained to hunt pests. Sure, most people can't identify one rat from another, but they can identify cats. The cars kill infiltrators (druid or just pests), and they cut their numbers down so new ones are more obvious. They themselves are known to the guards so they know if some new cat appears.

The same is true for dogs, and they could sniff out intruders. They could also be trained to hunt, which could be useful for a different set of pests. I'd imagine, in this world, probably hawks or something would be really common for guard stations too, and people would be used to identifying them. They would have developed tactics to deal with this that aren't necessarily common or available in our world.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 2 points 4 days ago

Druids keep their hit points, so it would be a very hard to kill small creature, and it has to be a pretty high level druid able to wildshape into a hummingbird. I don't think such small animals are available in the current version, a 12th level druid in version 3.5 can wildshape into a tiny animal, but I think a hummingbird would be a size category smaller than a rat, which isn't available until epic levels (beyond level 20)

Also a 12th level wildshaped druid is more than a match to anything in a castle. They have access to their magic after level 6. Igor would be in trouble

[–] MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com 14 points 1 week ago

As far as the detect magic thing goes, I think it depends a bit on the individual setting. I'm usually not playing in official WOTC settings, but per the PHB, a single cast of a low level spell can be 10-50 gp. A mercenary is 2 gp a day. Let's say for whatever reason that a spell caster was willing to take a midrange single spell cast payment for an entire day of work since it's a prestigious position, you're still looking at 30gp a day. That's equivalent to 15 mercenaries. That's just for a single spell caster who has 10 minutes of a spell that has a range of 30 ft, and can be blocked by the thickness of most castle walls. I don't know pricing difference for different wizard levels, but let's just say that you have level 1 wizards cast it as a ritual and have 2 wizards so they are switching off sentry/casting every 10 minutes. They work in shifts, so to be covered 24/7 you're looking at 3 8-hr shifts for two wizards per shift. So now you're employing 6 wizards, and you're still only getting 30 ft at a time. You could station them only in your treasury or whatever other important room, or you could have them walk the grounds on patrol. Unless you're switching to multiple sets patrolling you still won't be able to cover the full grounds all at once. At a certain point, security is just security theatre. Locks are a deterrent more than anything, so unless the person under attack is very very wealthy or is actively making high powered enemies, they probably don't actually need that level of security. I would guess that a place with less than 20 guards would not opt for that level of security. Anti-magic fields are not unheard of, and the above is certainly a thing that can be done, but I don't think most jails or bandit camps will have that level of security. Probably not even local mayors or city leaders.

If I was running a security heavy coronation or something, maybe the above would be relevant and the wizards would have something conferring invisibility, so the path they take would be unknown and random every time. Maybe they party heard through some rumors of an opening for a wizard position at the castle, though the monarch doesn't have a court wizard so they'd have a chance to know it's for security or something secret at least.

It might also be that it's unfun to make a heist where the shapeshifter is useless for stealth because every inch is covered by detect magic, or even if not every inch it adds unnecessary overhead of "where's the wizard casting now?" because someone has their familiar watching them anyway. No one is stopping you though, and I could definitely see it being fun to do for a big event.

As far as the guard thing goes, it probably depends on what is being guarded. A bandit camp in the woods will probably be accustomed to lots of animals. Maybe a castle grounds with a garden too. I think unless the location is known to house the Crown Jewels or something, the guards are probably just bored and aren't on high alert for those kind of things, especially if the PC is passing on stealth/nature checks to act natural. If a guard saw a butterfly in the middle of the castle in a room with no windows, that's cause for suspicion in a way that just seeing a butterfly outside would not be. Maybe a monarch would have overly zealous guards though.

Most pricing info from roll20: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Expenses

[–] sirblastalot@ttrpg.network 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Magic is rare in most settings.

[–] Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Which is dumb in a high fantasy setting, imo.

Using low magic is a crutch for the DM in order to control the actions of the PCs.

It is much easier to manage mundane actions than it is to manage actions fueled by wild magic. But they lead to less interesting stories.

I have much more fun DMing a setting like old Netheril. The stuff the PCs can do blow my mind. You just need to be able to fly by the seat of your pants.

[–] Ptsf@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The technology to disguise a robot as an insect currently exists. Do you give thought and inspection to every fly that passes by?

[–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Yes. They're annoying, so I start seeking it to kill it.

[–] tetris11@feddit.uk 6 points 1 week ago

There are likely waaay more animals in these wild magical kingdoms than the current world.

There's probably hundreds of rats and dozens of cats and dogs barking at any one time. A WS user could indeed be lurking in a corner somewhere amidst all that chaos, but as OP's post shows -- they are at constant peril to the animal kingdom.

I think most people would be happy to roll the dice

[–] Jumi@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Looking at you, Skyrim and Oblivion

[–] jaybone@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

She they just be constantly killing random birds?

[–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Already happens in real life basically when you look at the numbers. Cats are the second biggest extincter after humans.

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago

Most players and GMs just play it like magic is a New thing and it break so hard the suspension of disbelief.

[–] AHorseWithNoNeigh@piefed.social 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Do you pronounce your name Frodorich?

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 week ago (2 children)

... Has anyone ever just mandated an all Druid party, allowing for hybrid classing...

... and then just basically done an Animorphs campaign?

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I wanted to do an all gnome campaign but my dm was racist against gnomes

[–] WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I want to see a GM phrase everything in the most racist against gnomes way possible, as I play a gnome.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

I mean, dude claimed to assume everything about gnomes was an antisemitism. Dude was not Jewish, dude collected 1930s German memorabilia if you follow. Did not find that out until later. I do not want to go on and on, this guy is (most likely) not here to defend himself but his behavior was atrocious, including taking advantage of the session to make advances on everyone he was attracted to at the table whether they were in committed relationships or not.

If I had a halfway decent gm who made in-game racisms against gnomes, cool! I don't really like when players do the in game racisms tho. I have had, uh, immature players who fall back on real world racisms when the well of creativity runs dry and that's a red card

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The GameMaster's barely disguised projection of "actually, you're racist!!!"

...

including taking advantage of the session to make advances on everyone he was attracted to at the table whether they were in committed relationships or not.

Wait, what?

Oh god.

Ah yes, the DnD dating service, producing God-tier cringe on a regular basis since at least the 1980s.

Holy shit, I'm just... now I'm just seeing a Funkopop wall, an actual literal family heirloom Nazi flag, a trillby called a fedora, an AppleJack body pillow, a pre-prepared argument for why body odor is actually attractive...

That's just weird, especially considering goblin is an actual dogwhistle and dwarves were literally Tolkien making an extended Jewish metaphor.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

When they try the "have the druid wild shape into a horse and sell it for some quick cash only to change back under cover of darkness and flee" trick, have the buyer wait until the rest of the party is out of earshot and say "you poor thing! A fine beast like you and they've never had you shod! It's cruelty, is what it is! We're going right over to the farrier without delay!"

[–] sirblastalot@ttrpg.network 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

RAW that wouldn't do anything though.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What do you suppose is gonna happen to the nails when the druid switches back?

[–] sirblastalot@ttrpg.network 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Your worn items just kind of morph into your body when you wildshape. You don't have to strip naked to go from humanoid to animal, for instance.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

But does it work the other way around?

[–] psud@aussie.zone 1 points 4 days ago

Yep. One (high level) druid trick is to move tons of loot by wildshaping into an elephant, loading up with giant saddlebags, then wildshaping into an eagle to fly to the destination. The loot is recovered by the druid wildshaping back into an elephant

Or more practically a druid's bear form might wear armour that is too heavy for their normal form to carry

[–] gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Ain't it that RAW you just turn back into a humanoid with the same health as pre-wildshape?

[–] captain_oni@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, but then you become a lone druid in a castle surrounded by guards.

[–] gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 6 days ago

Ah yeah v good point

[–] h3ll3rsh4nks@ani.social 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

In the 2024 rules you don't take the animal forms HP so the druid in this case could easily tank that hit from Igor since they still have their base hp and you need to be at least level 8 to have a form with fly speed so plenty of hp in that pool.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

For a few years we could have Con as a dump stat. Not before or after though

[–] h3ll3rsh4nks@ani.social 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I miss being a bear bearian :(

[–] psud@aussie.zone 1 points 1 day ago

BG3 rules had circle of the moon druids be tanks. Likewise in 3.0, but 3.5 and 5.5 both broke wildshape for tanking unless you can take a shape with high dex or high natural armour, or you have high enough point buy or lucky enough rolls to have wis, con, dex