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Argentina is about to become the latest case study that libertarians refuse to acknowledge when you tell them their policies don't work.
Nah it's not that it's libertarianism failing it's just that idiots version of it failing
What they'll say when it fails or next time someone else tries to implement their ideals
then immediately turn around and mock communists for saying something similar.
But what will Lemmy communists say when you point out USSR and China?
To be fair USSR after communism was leagues better than USSR before communism ever could have been. But it's not exactly proving much pointing out that an extremely unequal authoritarian regime is worse than a more equal but still authoritarian regime.
I don't think the comparison works anyway because this is a true example of exactly what most libertarians have wet dreams of, while with communism people try to use e.g. the USSR and PRC to discredit leftism as a whole (especially socialism) even though any leftist worth their salt would realize authoritarianism is bad and creates a dangerous hierarchy, which is why Marx and Engels specified their ideologies to be democratic.
Libertarian and communist aren't the only political options if your education didn't top out at ninth grade.
I don't think China succeeded because of communism. They succeeded because Rich Industrialists in the west did not want to share their success with ordinary people and hence shifted all their work to China where the government ensured a steady supply of cheap labour. Of course, this only worked because the Chinese population was so poor that what were considered bad wages in the west was significantly more money than they would get back home.
Now this kind of outsourcing of labour is what lead to countries coming out of poverty: what made them poor in the first place? Rampant colonialism by EU nations. You can see this in Africa, South America, Asia.
He just didn't libertarian hard enough.
Nah it’s not that it’s libertarianism failing it’s just that idiots version of it failing
That's what Communists always say, the only one they worship is Lenin cuz he didn't have time to do anything anyway.
"It's not that libertarianism has failed; it's just that the wrong people have tried it!...."
I'm not a libertarian, I'm a social democrat.
The last century has been a total and unmitigated disaster for Argentina. The two options Argentinians had in this election were:
Unsurprisingly, they went for the latter. I don't think anti-libertarians get to gloat in this context, given it's the Argentinian establishment which has overseen one of the most remarkable examples of total state-collapse and economic failure in modern history.
The calculation shouldn't be "chance of things getting worse", but "expected value of how much worse it'll get".
This makes a lot of sense if you pretend he didn't say or promise anything during the campaign.
- More of the same by the guy who oversaw inflation reaching 160% (100% chance of things getting worse)
- A total wild card (99.9% chance of things getting much worse)
FTFY
That's bad math. Yes, if you put the same people in office. There's nearly 100% chance that they will continue doing what they have been doing. Good or bad. But if you put a lunatic with a grudge against reality in office. Who is aligned, or would align himself with the people who caused the problem before. You have 150% chance that things will get worse.
You have 150% chance
This isn’t exactly the best math either.
Yes, it was a jab at the logic. Things can always get worse. Always. Change for the sake of change is a bad proposition. So now the people causing the problems before aren't in direct control. They have a go between patsy. Poised to push awful social oppression openly that they'd likely only thought about in wet dreams. And a large chunk of misguided populous supporting it. Because "it's different".
Oof, yeah that's not a good choice.
Mate one dude was hearing voices and talks with his deceased dogs...how can you say "wild card" with a straight face?
What's the previous case study?
Look up Kansas Ave Oklahoma. It got so bad for them they had to cut school to 4 days per week and that was before the pandemic.
Who is John Galt? Looks like we're about to find out.
It's the key ideological problem with the book. Rand was right that people do not inherently owe anyone else the fruits of their labor, but wrong about who was holding the world on their shoulders. It wasn't the handful of elite, but the masses without whom the elite would be living in caves and running from bears.
Who is John Galt? We the people are.
And yes, throughout history pretty much every authoritarian regime ultimately collapses or sends their country back decades in progress by not knowing that lesson.
Yet it never seems to actually be learned.
They'll come out of the woods and start claiming he wasn't a true libertarian.
From everything I've heard about the election in Argentina, it was the meeting of "Anything is better than this" and "it can always get worse." The former won, and proved the latter correct.
No, the current policies are just getting reality and practice closer together.
IRL their money was ALREADY devalued soooooo much, he didn't do anything to change that, just adjusted it to reality.
Subsidies on imported oil is CRAZY for a bankrupt country. YOU GUYS HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD WHAT IT'S LIKE TO HAVE DECADES OF 100% OR MORE INFLATION PER YEAR.
Perfect summary
Milei — who has been described as an anarchocapitalist — set out to reduce the government’s involvement and oversight in many aspects of Argentina’s economy, including announcing that he would privatize many state-owned companies, would decrease labor protections and remove regulations that limit the amount of agricultural and productive land that can be owned by foreign companies.
Argentina going full GOP
RIP Argentina. I don't know the situation that led to this, but man, that sounds real, real bad for the average Argentine people.
Here's one bit of context. Under the other candidate, the one this guy Milei ran against, who was the economic minister of the previous government, in September inflation reached 124%.
In case you were wondering why Milei won.
You also need to know the bigger history of Argentina's last century of economic decline.
Argentina is taught as a case study in undergraduate economics courses in 'how not to manage an economy'.
The Economist have a good video on the current crisis (Why is Argentina’s economy such a mess? ) and this one about the broader trend since the 1900s/10s.
Thank you for the information sir!
Holy yes, that's a whole lot to unpack here. I understand the situation a bit better now. What a shitty choice for an election xd
On the plus side, I understand the Argentinean memes now that pop up then and there—their game is on point. (South American/Latin American meme culture, in general, is on top of things and much more represented among all age groups.) Kudos to them, still keeping humor alive despite the situation.
Yeah it's a nasty choice. I legit think it was: guy who already screwed the economy (100% chance of things getting worse), guy who's madder than a box of badgers but wants to try something different (99.9% chance of things getting worse), so let's hope for that 0.01%.
To amplify,
I've been tangentially following Argentina for a couple of decades, lived there for a few months in 05. I started out really passionate about the situation there. These days , all I can do is shake my head.
Argentinian should just bear it for a bit until multinational corporations swoop in and buy various assets dirt-cheap. Imagine all the future profits! /s
Fuck around and find out. I'm so sorry for everyone who was duped by libertarians pretending they will do anything for regular people and not just the wealthy shareholders, everyone who was held back by economic sanctions in a war against 'muh socialism', and all those who saw the obvious coming but were dragged into it by the other rubes. This is going to suck. I hope the protests will work
At some point, I risk a coup.
Oh joy. Skyrocketing rent combined with plummeting wages.
This isn't going to destroy their economy at all...
That’s a right wing populist figure for you.
Can this guy step down yet?
Yeah in 8 years!
Protests of FREE LOADING PROFITEERS, yeah.
Just wait till the bears start showing up.
Libertarians never plan for the bears.
Enjoy Reverse Wolverine, Argentina!
My conservative dad won't stop harping on Venuzuela, I think he's about to get a taste of his own medicine.
They are chanting against the IMF... why?, I thought....
oh...
BUENOS AIRES, Dec 9 (Reuters) - A U.S. delegation gave its support to Argentine President-elect Javier Milei over talks with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and developing its lithium sector during a meeting in Buenos Aires on Saturday, a White House official told Reuters.
Juan Gonzalez, adviser to U.S. President Joe Biden and the National Security Council's Western Hemisphere senior director, said the talks, a day ahead of Milei's inauguration, were "very positive" and focused on the country's embattled economy.
Ah yes! a moment of clarity. Carry on, then. As usual.
Yeah these were not organic. Notice that they stopped after a week