this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024

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136

Israel drops leaflets on under-siege Palestinians asking for their help to find Israeli hostages, as Gaza death toll hits 25,000 (www.businessinsider.com)

submitted 2 years ago by i_have_no_enemies@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 56 points 2 years ago (2 children)

"I know we're killing you right now, but could you help us save a handful of our people, who we'd like to let live? Thanks."

[–] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 51 points 2 years ago

" We just want to evacuate them as soon as possible. Then we can kill you even more brutally"

[–] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 38 points 2 years ago

Have they checked under the rubble of all the buildings they've destroyed? We already know they've killed their own before, and that the hostages themselves said that's something they feared was being killed by the IDFs bombs

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 19 points 2 years ago

I'm sure that will be to priority instead of trying to save their own lives. /s

[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

You know how some days you come back home from a long hard day of work and you don’t want to do anything cause you’re tired so you order delivery. Yeah, imagine having little food, little water, being bombed constantly, being forced to move constantly, having the areas you move to be bombed, fearing for your life constantly and to top it all off the force that is doing this ask you to start a manhunt for some people. This is a sick joke.

[–] badbytes@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Shouldn't they have done this like a month or two ago?

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 3 points 2 years ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Israeli forces have dropped leaflets in Gaza asking residents for help finding hostages taken by Hamas on October 7, as bombardment of the besieged strip continues.

The leaflets dropped in Rafah, in the south of the Gaza strip, on Saturday featured photos of 33 hostages with their names written in Arabic.

"They are asking people's help because they are unable to get to their hostages because of the resistance," Abu Ali, a north Gaza resident, told Reuters.

Meanwhile, more than 25,000 Palestinians have been killed since Israel began its aerial bombardment campaign and ground invasion, according to the Gaza Health Ministry.

The ministry does not distinguish between civilians and combatants in its death toll but says around two-thirds of those killed were women and children, which is supported by United Nations estimates.

Several families camped outside one of Netanyahu's residences on Friday night to protest what they described as government inaction to free their captured relatives.

The original article contains 312 words, the summary contains 156 words. Saved 50%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[+] i_have_no_enemies@lemmy.world -53 points 2 years ago (3 children)

can we really trust hamass death toll of civilians?

[–] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 36 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Their numbers have usually aligned pretty well with NGOs estimations and are generally accepted as more or less trustworthy.

[+] Arete@lemmy.world -19 points 2 years ago (3 children)

For total count maybe, but they have never made a distinction between their own soldiers and civilians. They want the 25k number misinterpreted as a civilian death count, and have largely succeeded.

[–] FishFace@lemmy.world 34 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Most of the death toll is women and children (7k and 10k, respectively). Even if you assume all men killed are Hamas fighters, which is not true, that is very high when compared to the attack which triggered the war.

[+] Arete@lemmy.world -17 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I agree the civilian death toll is outsized, but just to play Devil's advocate here: Hamas is the group putting out the women and children numbers, and given they don't make a civilian/soldier distinction they almost certainly are including all soldiers under 18 in the "children" numbers. They want you to picture 10k murdered 6-year-olds, but we don't actually have a break down by age or child-soldier status. Hopefully we can get some visibility there soon.

[–] FishFace@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There is no need to "play devil's advocate" - if you believe something, argue for it. If you don't believe something but think I'm missing something, you can point it out and make a case for why it's important without being confusing about what you actually believe.

All evidence I have seen is that Hamas does not systematically use child soldiers. We can see the indiscriminate tactics of the IDF; we can put that together with the high death toll to make a reasonable conclusion that vast numbers of civilians have been killed. You're trying to cast doubt on this idea but the amount of doubt is akin to flicking water from your fingers onto a housefire.

[–] Arete@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The average age in Gaza is like 17. Do you truly believe Hamas is out checking birth certificates? Statistically, half their forces are minors. Combined with estimates of Hamas military losses, that might make fully half of the 10k dead children Hamas child soldiers. While still horrifying, that meaningfully changes how the reported casualty counts should be interpreted. My point is, and has always been, that interpreting casualty numbers that a militant group releases with clear propaganda intent in a light most favorable to them is at best stupid and at worst willfully ignorant.

[–] FishFace@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

You say this:

interpreting casualty numbers that a militant group releases with clear propaganda intent in a light most favorable to them...

but just said this:

Statistically, half their forces are minors.

Pull the other one. If all you wanted was for people not to interpret casualty numbers "in a light most favourable to Hamas" you'd be acknowledging how high the death toll is while making your point instead of trying to distract from it.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Israel certainly doesn’t make that distinction when they indiscriminately bomb them.

[–] Arete@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Whataboutism aside, Israel estimates 8k dead Hamas soldiers, so they literally do make a distinction.

[–] athos77@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

they have never made a distinction between their own soldiers and civilians.

I don't see why you think that's a problem - Israel has certainly never made a distinction between Hamas soldiers and Palestinian civilians when they bomb them or slaughter them in the street or fire at them when aid is being given out.

[–] Arete@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago

Oh is Israel reporting 25k dead Hamas soldiers then?

[–] speaker_hat@lemmy.one 1 points 2 years ago

I welcome you to read Hamas 2017 charter and let me know whether you can trust this organization in any way:

Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20240112193141/https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf

[–] kool_newt@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The first casualty of war is truth. We can trust Hamas as much or more than we can trust Israel. I'm not an expert, but I'd imagine we could find 100 instances of misinformation from Israel for every 1 from Hamas just from how much each group puts out.