this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2025
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I am neuro-divergent. I struggle with remembering minutia that aren't, coincidentally, just luckily the minutia that I glimpse, once, and never forget. I state this not as an excuse but as a statement of fact and I am terrible at remembering people's pronouns. I cannot even remember people's names. When I see people I know, I can remember who they are, what we have done together, where we have been, what we have seen and even the tone of voice they might use to exclaim at an occurrence or upon some eventuality but – yet – I often cannot remember their names. Pronouns are like parts of their names.

And, so, I tend to address everyone with "they" / "them".

In my limited experience, this only tends to annoy the anti-woke conservative types who renounce the very concept of pronouns and believe that one should only ever be addressed as "he" / "him" – assuming that a penis hangs between their thighs – or "she" / "her" otherwise. (A musing: How do they know? Also, what if it's cold? Or they're upside down? Quandaries within quandaries!)

BUT... I am open minded and I can believe that others, too, might be offended by my cop-out, including open-minded, non-mysoginist, non-bigots who do understand why people elect to be addressed under non-Victorian pronouns.

I have recently had reason to pause and wonder about this. I struggle with pronouns but I do try my best and so, I'm asking: for which reasons might someone object? Tell me, LGBTQ+ community.

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[–] irotsoma@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I also default to they/them. That has been the default for way longer than this "debate" (i.e. stream of hate) has been popular. I'd love to see the people who use "he or she" instead of "they" in normal speech about people whose gender they don't know. I don't know anyone outside of old formal papers from the pre-internet era that use that kind of language.

I'm agender by the way, so not only are pronouns sometimes hard to remember because they don't connect to the way I perceive a person, but i don't even perceive my own gender except when forced to, so take my comments with that in mind.

[–] schleudersturz@beehaw.org 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Your comments might be more relevant to me than you know. I don't know if I'm "agender" or something else. I know I very definitely do perceive that I have a gender, sometimes. Maybe an hour here and there, an evening, … but I can definitely identify with that "don't even perceive my own gender" bit for the vast majority of my life, integrating over time.

And, as you can clearly tell, I haven't perceived my own gender intensely enough to bother to find the right label for it so I mostly just let the world slap whatever labels they think makes them happy.

I guess that that annoys me, though, now that I come to think about it. I do know that I'm not what they label me. Most think I'm heterosexual male because that's how I suppose I present in real life – how I dress and what you'd see on the "FKK" swimming lawn – and the rest label me "gay"-as-in-perjorative (I'm from a toxic-masculine culture, born in the 80's, with a voice pitched too high and a body that's not tall enough. What else would you expect?) I'm definitely neither of these. Or: nearly always neither of those and never only either of those.

Maybe this unacknowledged irritation is why I'm here, looking to find the right way to treat others even while I've long given up on being treated right by the wrong sort of others? (I am exceedingly lucky in that I can fly below the radar and live in a safe country so I literally can treat people who deny my existence as simply beneath my notice.)

[–] Zaleramancer@beehaw.org 3 points 9 months ago

I identify as agender now, I previously identified purely as a gay man for most of my life. In retrospect, it's kind of obvious for me, I've always been fascinated by characters who stood outside the gender binary- robots, aliens, etc. I was very Christian growing up and I was fascinated by angels as genderless beings.

In my case, I just don't like gendered language being applied to be in general. I don't identify as having a gender. It's always felt like work, being a man, like it's never enough and everyone has all these opinions about, "what a man is" and I resented it so Intensely.

Because I didn't want it. I wanted to be a weird outlier who didn't have to grapple with expectations in regards to my appearance, interests and talents based on something arbitrary that I didn't even opt into. I never felt validation from affirming my gender. It was just work I poured into a hole in the ground to please other people and make them more comfortable.

Now I'm pretty happy! I just don't give a shit about how I come off gender-wise and I basically don't care how people refer to me because I know I can act however I choose.

I'm not sure if this is helpful, but I felt like sharing? Maybe the irritation you're feeling is because there are parts of the gender role you're living out that you're dissatisfied with. Gender role is constructed, so I highly recommend picking the parts you want and living that, if that follows?

Anyway, thanks for sharing! I love when people talk about gender! It's nice to get to feel that way.

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