donuts

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Nobody's but when the war ends the number of hostages Hamas has will be an important factor in just how fucked Gaza will be.

How so, and what's the endgame here? Keep as many innocent civilians hostage in perpetuity?

Here you are admitting that Hamas' actions have benefited literally "nobody" thus far, and at the same time you're suggesting that they keep doing what they're currently doing (something which, as we've already established, is a war crime) because it will "be an important factor" in the future, in some very abstract and vague way?

As the saying goes "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results."

Yep, just showed your true colors.

Not sure what this ad hominem is supposed to suggest, but it's weak either way. 🤷

In that case Israel should also be surrendering its leadership and soldiers to stand trial in the Hague for genocide (or at the very least collective punishment).

I agree that Israel's actions over the last few months should be put under just as much scrutiny as Hamas', and in fact, they are. https://apnews.com/article/genocide-israel-palestinians-gaza-court-fbd7fe4af10b542a1a4e2c7563029bfb

No Western country has declared support for South Africa’s allegations against Israel. The U.S., a close Israel ally, has rejected them as unfounded, the U.K. has called them unjustified, and Germany said it “explicitly rejects” them.

China and Russia have said little about one of the most momentous cases to come before an international court. The European Union also hasn’t commented.

So far there doesn't seem to be much of a argument that anything that Israel has done up until now rises to the level of a war crime, while as I shared above, the Geneva Convention is explicit that terrorist hostage-taking of innocent civilians is, on its face, a war crime. If Israel is proven to have done things that are so blatantly war crimes, they should be held accountable for those things. It's the only reasonable position to take, frankly.

As always, if you find yourself arguing against the Geneva Convention you might want to reexamine the ethics and soundness of your position.

Israel (specifically Netanyahu) has repeatedly stated they want security control of Palestine "from the river to the sea".

Hamas have also repeatedly stated, including in their 1988 founding charter, that the goal of their jihad is the complete destruction of Israel and genocide of Jewish people in the Levant.

Neither Netenyahu nor Hamas believe in a peaceful two-state solution in which Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs can live together peacefully. If I had my way they'd both be totally stripped of power.

hostages one of the few ways Palestinians can actually do anything to improve their lives

Genuine question, how has Hamas taking hundreds of innocent people hostage on October 7th improved the situation in Gaza or Israel in any way? Whose life is better today than it was a couple of months ago as a result?

International humanitarian law prohibits taking and executing hostages. Such acts are considered war crimes (GCI–IV Common Art. 3; GCIV Arts. 34, 147; API Art. 75) and can be tried before any national court, under the principle of universal jurisdiction.

The Convention defines a hostage taker as “any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure or to continue to detain another person (‘hostage’) in order to compel a third party, namely a State, an international inter-governmental organization, a natural or juridical person, or a group of persons, to do or to abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the hostage, commits the offence of taking hostages (‘hostage taking’)” (Art. 1 of Hostage Convention).

The Convention further specifies that not only those who commit such an act but also any person who attempts to commit or who participates as an accomplice in such an act or attempt is accountable and must be punished.

At any rate, regardless of whether you feel Hamas' jihad is justified or not (it isn't, in fact), hostage taking is an international war crime. The Geneva Convention is the bare minimum standard on this, and as such our opinions and political leanings are irrelevant.

The bare minimum Hamas can do now is to release the remaining hostages and surrender themselves to the IDF to stand trial, so that the innocent people of Gaza can start slowly putting their lives back together.

Holding civilians hostage for 3 months isn't "war", it's an act of terrorism and a war crime.

Edit: I see I struck a nerve with that one.

They won't get anything from handing them over

I guess Allah doesn't reward people just for doing the right thing then?

a reason, and that's to give Hamas more leverage during the eventual ceasefire negotiations

I don't find "leverage" and political bargaining to be a good reason to take innocent people hostage.

But even if I did, I think Hamas has a pretty fucking terrible track record of negotiating anything on the behalf of Palestinians. The October 7th terror attacks brought Gaza from the frying pan into the fire, and I doubt there will be anything resembling a ceasefire until the hostages are freed.

The morally right thing for Hamas to do is to free the hostages and to turn over anybody who was involved in the October 7th terror attacks. The morally right thing for Israel to do is to implement an immediate ceasefire, facilitate aide into Gaza, and call back all illegal settlers in the West Bank. Will either side do the right thing? I don't know, probably not, but I can only hope.

If it makes no difference either way then they should free the hostages simply because it's the right thing to do...

It really shouldn't be hard or controversial to support the innocent people on both sides of this horrible war. Free the damn hostages and stop the bombings.

Fuck man... What a sad mess this whole thing is. Imagine being taken hostage for 2 fucking months by Hamas terrorist assholes only to eventually be killed by your own country's army of incompetent trigger happy gung ho fuckwads.

Unfortunately Hamas hasn't held a single election since they were elected in 2006, and Netanyahu is looking similarly autocratic. The recent escalation is only going to make both sides more antagonistic.

In other words, this shit ain't going away any time soon.