this post was submitted on 31 Jan 2024
509 points (96.4% liked)

World News

34956 readers
466 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago (15 children)

They're all smaller than Carrefour. That's the kind of place where the billions are landing while farmers, even if they have employees, are happy if they make minimum wage on a three-year average and don't go bankrupt.

These are not the fat cats you're looking for.

[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (11 children)

And are the farm workers protesting (and are they unionized) or are the farm owners protesting?

They are overleveraged entrepreneurs. I agree that that's not good, but that's not an excuse to maintain business as usual.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (10 children)

Yes, farm workers are protesting, at least in Germany. It's in fact the small family farms who aren't protesting because they literally can't afford to, larger ones are doing it for them, owner and employees joining ranks because employees are smart enough to see that their boss isn't earning more than them, even if they wanted to they couldn't afford it. Which is also why the average tractor you see at those protests is quite impressive family farms can't afford that kind of hardware (and have no need for it either, and if they have, they borrow one or own one by means of a coop).

Marxist class analysis does not look at whether you're an employer or entrepreneur, but your power relationship to capital. And by that measure farmers range from petite bourgeois (if they're very lucky) down to right-out Lumpen.

As said: Just because a day labourer owns a hammer doesn't mean they have anything to say regarding their work, any power to siphon off surplus value, etc.

[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Honestly, the fact that you're trying to portray large land owners with and high-tech capital owners as "those workers" is extremely amusing, and also tragic, as you're supporting the soil of fascism.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Many of those farmers don't own land, they lease it. Maybe they own one field because they come from an old farming family, but not the rest of the fields they need to even break even. And a tractor needs to be driven and you need to get up early even if it is GPS-enabled and can micro-dose fertiliser into the exact spots the field needs.

Don't bring your US "one farm from horizon to horizon" POV into European agriculture. That's pretty much the case pretty much nowhere over here.

Lastly, I never said "those workers". Did you even reply to the right comment.

[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Many of those farmers don’t own land, they lease it.

Of course, the rentiers are worse. I agree with that.

And a tractor needs to be driven and you need to get up early even if it is GPS-enabled and can micro-dose fertiliser into the exact spots the field needs.

Right, because they're not workers. The farmers are managers and owners of technology. And they're becoming unnecessary.

At least try to understand the role of fossil fuels and technology in all of this.

Here, start with Luddites: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/06/the-luddites-were-right

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Of course, the rentiers are worse. I agree with that.

Rentiers which receive agricultural subsidies, btw.

Right, because they’re not workers. The farmers are managers and owners of technology. And they’re becoming unnecessary.

Petite bourgois are by definition workers. Those farmers very much can't live from capital income alone. They're folks who studied (in one way or the other) agriculture, they are making decisions as to what to grow when and where, they're out there in the fields grabbing dirt and inspecting roots and making decisions about when to fertilise, when to harvest. They're farmers, doing farmer stuff. That doesn't change just because they hired the neigbour's son to drive the tractor over one field while they're inspecting another. Or, once every year, a bunch of Ukrainians come along and help with harvesting stuff that needs harvesting by hand.

And no they're very much not unnecessary. What's it with vegans and being city kids completely alienated from how their food is grown.

At least try to understand the role of fossil fuels and technology in all of this.

It's not just fossil fuels, import-dependent agriculture is generally a problem and those issues also include, say, phosphates. Not a climate change issue but a general sustainability one (those mines won't last forever), with further impacts on the local environment (overfertilisation and everything).

Meanwhile saying "your diesel is going to cost more" to farmers who couldn't afford to buy electric tractors if those even existed in the first place is tone-deaf as fuck.

Do you think organic farmers have it easier than conventional ones? Or don't drive diesels? Boy oh boy. The prices you get for produce are higher, yes, but it's also more work. Which wouldn't be an issue if you weren't saying "farmers don't work".

[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Petite bourgois are by definition workers.

No, they're not. They're always blurring the lines. Clearly class traitors in this context.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

So they don't produce surplus value that is siphoned off by capital?

All those contractors that went bankrupt because Trump doesn't pay his bills, do you intend to say that to their face? That because they own a literal hammer, they can't get fucked over?

Even fucking tankies, at least some of them, acknowledge this: In the GDR tradespeople, from baker to electrician, owned (as in actually owned) their business. Hiring a journeyman and having a trainee doesn't bourgeois make.

load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)